Tulpa.info - metaphysics

Have some grey jedi bullshit.

slow net

summary of the video: two people talking

4:23 PM

you are welcome

About belief, and strength. And weakness.

sorry, one person talking, other one just looking

The other is talking telepathically!

4:23 PM

Probably.

thats how its for games

it's like watching zelda talking to jedi

so when i get lectured by elders i am jedi !?

4:25 PM

Sure, but in this instance the Jedi are considered to be objectively wrong. So there's that.

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

i don't get it, how is it interrupted? discussions get interesting when people of opposing views star talking, now when everyone agrees with each other

just saying "it's pseudoscience" isn't going to encourage any discussion, neither is Zen's saying "it's delusional". if you tried to question how people came to the conclusions that they did, then that would get them to explain themselves more and something worthwhile could result from that, but just making a contradictory assertion only serves to shut down conversation

pseudoscience literally means "Pseudoscience consists of statements, beliefs, or practices that claim to be both scientific and factual but are incompatible with the scientific method."

You're not wrong Bre, but my alternative isn't a discussion, it's me speaking purely in terms of links to scientific truths. Such as evidence that faith healing doesn't work.

so u guys do know the ritual ~

if there is no scientific method, there is nothing to be offended by when you are called out to be pseudoscientific

It's easier for me, honestly, to just say that it doesn't work. And really the onus of proving magic works isn't really on me.

I'm not saying that y'all are wrong, but it's just not very constructive

Does all discussion need to be constructive?

hahaha zen this is for us

and Zen, if you are unable to say things constructively, have you considered not saying anything at all?

i think you missed a lot of discussions here we've had, sure the last one was quite short and not very constructive, but most of the time i think they are pretty constructive

I would reiterate. Do you only speak when it is constructive?

hmm

Because I certainly talk a lot of shit that's intended to be perhaps entertaining but not really constructive.

hmm i do too , but atleast i hope to come out with some gains at the end (edited)

seems like what she's trying to say is there's meant to be a place here for non-empirical philosophical discussion and I'd have to agree

everything doesn't have to be constructive, but I have seen a lot of meta talk getting shut down by this and it is starting to annoy me. I don't even believe in magic, but I still like to see other people talk about it and see what they believe and why (edited)

most of the time what i do is asking if they care if what they believe is true, how they test it, and if they care if what they tell others' is true

This all boils down to whether you believe some beliefs should not be questioned in this channel. And I would say that is universally a bad idea. (edited)

people having a place where they are not challenged will only result with them going deeper in the things they don't even understand or have no ways of testing, and then go around tell those things to others

I am honestly quite interested in different modes of thought too, and at many times engage with them. But it's not in my nature to indulge what is frankly a delusion.

there is a difference between questioning someone and just saying that they are wrong

isn't part of questioning saying that they are wrong?

Belief in magic is unfalsifiable, it's not delusional by itself.

am i supposed to tell them they are right?

the only way you can go far sometimes is to put aside testing just for the sake of discussion whereas people in this channel tend to use testing as an excuse to shut down any and all discussion

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

isn't part of questioning saying that they are wrong?

Not necessarily?

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

isn't part of questioning saying that they are wrong?

questioning doesn't have to have judgement like that

how is calling something pseudoscientific judgemental?

4:35 PM

you all are saying that you don't want to test things here

4:36 PM

that's the definition of it

4:36 PM

it's objectively true

4:36 PM

and there is no judgement there

in fact, if you've already made up your mind on whether someone is wrong or right, then why are you asking them anyway?

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

people having a place where they are not challenged will only result with them going deeper in the things they don't even understand or have no ways of testing, and then go around tell those things to others

i agree , a good spar needs a cordinatimg partner after all

Indeed. At a certain point someone claims something that has evidence against it, and it is honestly a duty to correct them at that point.

Breloomancer

in fact, if you've already made up your mind on whether someone is wrong or right, then why are you asking them anyway?

because i might be wrong

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

because i might be wrong

so then you haven't made up your mind then

if i make up my mind, i can't change it?

hydrix95

the only way you can go far sometimes is to put aside testing just for the sake of discussion whereas people in this channel tend to use testing as an excuse to shut down any and all discussion

what he said , sometime to think outside the box we need to forget that it even exists

i hope you all don't think that this kind of criticism is only specific for this channel, if that's the case you missed like 90% of my conversations with zen

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

how is calling something pseudoscientific judgemental?

yes, it is making a judgement by putting them in a category. you could also say "this is magic" or "you are saying words" and it would be similarly judgemental and unproductive

Let me bring this back to an example. Someone not too recently came into the server and said that their tulpa seemed to be scratching them and leaving hair on their clothes. They were laughed out, perhaps too quickly. But the point is, this is a belief that flies in the face of all of the data science has ever provided us. So what then, we pat them on the back and tell them "Yeah, we don't know so you might be right!" No. They were wrong, deluding themselves.

ok, i will be asking to show me the scientific method that was used to determine any metaphysical claims

‍♀️

Respect in conversation is fine. Agreeing with delusion is not.

yeah

being poilte doesnt cost

4:41 PM

so meh

Yes, I think we should always attempt to be civil.

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

if i make up my mind, i can't change it?

you can't change your mind until you un-make-it-up, yes. I think this is sort of getting into weird territories that aren't entirely related to the point that I was trying to make though

but you took me there lol

4:43 PM

you have no idea how badly i would like to test metaphysical claim with someone and be proven wrong

atleast i always try to see from how something might be possible ,for example that cat fur guy i recall that one too (edited)

i want someone to move an apple on my desk, read my mind, anything

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

ok, i will be asking to show me the scientific method that was used to determine any metaphysical claims

‍♀️

that's fine

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

i want someone to move an apple on my desk, read my mind, anything

yes give us the force !!!!

Breloomancer

you can't change your mind until you un-make-it-up, yes. I think this is sort of getting into weird territories that aren't entirely related to the point that I was trying to make though

This always seems to be the position of people who don't understand what empricism and science are. They are not beliefs, they are modes of interaction. If you are interacting with a hypothesis with presumptions, you are not being empirical/scientific. I'm not interacting with these conversations with the idea that magic objectively doesn't exist. I'm interacting with the notion that all the evidence I possess implies that most of it doesn't exist, and that anything else outside my experience may very well exist.

4:45 PM

I'm not attempting to make statements on data I don't possess.

4:45 PM

We might very well gain psychic powers through genetic manipulation at some point, who the fuck knows?

4:45 PM

But magic; doesn't; work.

4:45 PM

And the magic that is repeatable

4:45 PM

is hypnosis.

wait, so you are not a wizard?

and life and all of creation as well

I'm a next level wizard.

4:46 PM

Discovering your entire mode of being is wrong, is part of levelling.

he is an apprentice~

now (edited)

4:47 PM

cuz he gave away his wand earlier

Got more than one.

Zen

But magic; doesn't; work.

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Zen

This always seems to be the position of people who don't understand what empricism and science are. They are not beliefs, they are modes of interaction. If you are interacting with a hypothesis with presumptions, you are not being empirical/scientific. I'm not interacting with these conversations with the idea that magic objectively doesn't exist. I'm interacting with the notion that all the evidence I possess implies that most of it doesn't exist, and that anything else outside my experience may very well exist.

I think that you have entirely misunderstood what I was trying to convey, but I don't care to attempt to further clarify this perceived miscommunication because it wouldn't be that interesting

nah zen is just like that

4:50 PM

i got used to it

he always manges to overuse the word empirical

I have a huge hard on for empiricism.

4:51 PM

I don't know if you even understand.

immortalbeggar

he always manges to overuse the word empirical

that's very empirical of you to say it

BUT MY GOD DO I WANT TO HAVE INTERCOURSE WITH EMPIRICISM. (edited)

It's such an exquisite and beautiful philosophy.

4:52 PM

So minimalist, so functional.

also, to clarify, I think it's fine to dismiss magic and other extraordinary claims outside of this channel, but since this channel is specifically for talking about that sort of thing, to dismiss it in this channel just make it kind of pointless

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would you want to believe in things that are untrue?